Roger Castillo - Lost in the head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyxuzCUItpI&t=1s&ab_channel=RogerCastillo-BeingLived https://nondual.community/word2/discussion-group-roger-castillo-teachings/ [[Roger Castillo]] #satsang Today I was talking to a teacher in school teacher and they mentioned that what is so common in the school system in particular because there are so many students in a class and teacher can't really focus on each student is that teaching takes on a particular format just as a response to the way the situation is and in a way it becomes less effective teaching and students also take on a learning methodology that is not necessarily very effective learning and one of the methodologies that students take on is just memorizing information and it's it is an adaptation a practical application to the fact that you will get tested on something you need to be able to answer the questions in the exam and memorizing information is appropriate to pass the exam because if you memorize it sufficiently that you have the memory of the information on the day you can just you know use your memory and put an answer down and in six months later if you ask someone about that topic the likelihood is that if that was the methodology to learning all their that learning technique it now is a topic that has slipped away and they have no real answer for the question and spiritual seeking can sort of be the same as that I received a message today from someone that said how does non-duality deal with things such as the death of a child when so for the the parent how does non-duality address that topic and in a way because in a way they were looking for an answer to help a friend who was grieving and when I thought about it and thought what answer shall I put forward what is most striking is that's really not what spirituality as a whole not just non duality and even when we say non duality there are different different approaches to non duality and then there is non duality within many other spiritual teachings that wouldn't necessarily be referred to as non dual teachings but at their core or there is a thread of non duality that can be found in teachings that wouldn't be labeled specifically as non duality so rather than looking at this question in relation to non duality I would say in relation to spirituality let's say we assume that spirituality as a whole is taking people to the same place in that case I would say then spirituality is not a magic pill it doesn't deliver magic answers to people in times of crisis it just it it just doesn't work like that it doesn't work in an instant it's a process of change so spiritual teachings are really there with the intention of bringing about change within a person and that change usually takes an extended period of time there are periods in the seeking where flashes of insight happen and if we look at that in isolation we might say the flash of insight happened outside of tuck time it required no time for this insight in this moment to happen but if we look 5:01 more objectively that insight is usually part of an ongoing process that happens over time and so I would say that a seeker is essentially a student within a spiritual system of new conditioning new information that system can include the variety of different teachings or one teaching it doesn't really matter and looking at it from a practical point of view it is bringing about a change in the person such that in times of crisis after being devoted to the search after being affected by the teachings that are coming in and having contemplated them having investigated having meditated having reprioritized what is important in life as a result of the changes that start happening then at a certain point the seeker if it is destiny for the seeking to deliver what seeking can deliver at a certain point the seeker finds themselves relating to life differently relating to circumstance differently not because of a magic pill that is delivered in a moment but rather because of a set of new conditioning that has allowed life to be seen differently in that scene of life differently is a cumulative effect you see one part of life different in one part of yourself differently and then that becomes the foundation for the next seeing that is different from before so I think it's very important for us as seekers to understand what process we're in and to become aware of it to see it because really it is a process of seeing things more clearly so seeing the process that is happening within and seeing what factors are part of that process um is in fact part of the understanding it aids the understanding so if a spiritual seeker is learning things by heart they're in a way like the student at school who is learning something by heart but not really understanding what it is they have learned by heart and so the students at school that do very well in a subject are usually those that understand the principles as they all interrelate to each other so a student that's good at physics doesn't learn a lot of physics information by heart and then but they sort of embody what is being described in the textbooks they and they see it in action or they can create mental pictures of it so that they can then solve of problems beyond the information that they have been given and learned so it becomes an evolving movement from within the understanding develops as you apply the primary levels of understanding that you have and you apply them to life and then more understanding comes out of that now if we don't start off with primary levels of understanding it doesn't flower it doesn't grow into anything more than that and the primary levels of understanding are not initial learning something by heart that isn't the primary level of understanding the primary level of understanding is hearing something remembering it which is part of you can learn that by heart but really you only learn it by heart so that it's there for you to think about it and what does it mean sentences are made up of many words strung together to make a point and when you learn something by heart you can actually 10:02 learn something by heart in another language and have no idea what it's saying and you can repeat it because you've learnt it by heart but you don't so the singers that sings songs in other languages might learn the lyrics without actually knowing what the lyrics mean it means that they have no real understanding and so this understanding I'm talking about which is - understood here what is said and to think about it to contemplate it requires a looking on a level outside of the thinking itself it requires us to look at the level at which the words the concepts are pointing the look at the level that the concepts are describing and in this particular teaching we look at daily life so it's very available the looking the seeing is completely available so the concept talks about the flow of life the flow of life means the ever-changing circumstance so in this moment for example dogs barking is part of the flow of life and 15 minutes ago no dogs barking because it was a different circumstance so the circumstance is always changing and it describes the flow of life is sometimes pleasure and sometimes pain so if I ask them what what is the flow of life and they say sometimes pleasure sometimes pain and then I say what is peace of mind peace of mind is the end of suffering now that is good those are the right answers but do we know what those words mean when someone's is to the to the question what is the flow of life and they say pleasure or pain do they know what pleasure or pain means do they know what the word flow of life actually means because they know the answer to that question that memorized that question and they've heard that talks a lot so they know the answer a question from within the framework but if I say um in in other terms what is the flow of life and I get the answer and I say okay it's actually what is the flow of life tell me what the flow of life is um and then oh I don't know the answer to that because I haven't memorized the answer that's a saying but you if you have the other answer that the flow of life is sometimes pleasure and sometimes pain surely you must know what the flow of life is because how can you give me the answer to that question if you don't know what the flow of life is and if that's the case it means someone is just remembering not really being interested in do I understand this so you know there are pundits and scholars that can recite Vedas and scriptures tell you you know in which section this is said and repeated they could have been studying for fifty years and in my view it could be absolutely worthless when it comes to what spiritual seeking actually delivers it might not be worthless because they might be highly regarded because of their vast scholarly knowledge and that might serve them in some way but as far as actually delivering the fruits of seeking that sort of understanding could be worthless it I mean you can have someone that has a deep understanding of what all those words are pointing at and that deep understanding meaning they when they talk about it they're not talking about it from memory they're talking about it because the understanding and the scriptures has been has directed their attention to the thing itself they have seen it and become intimate with it and now they're talking out of their seeing of it and they're essentially just describing what 15:00 they are intimately familiar with and so the words may well match the pointers that they received originally because they say ah this was great for me so I'm going to say the same thing but they're not just repeating book knowledge they're repeating what they have seen so if someone has a great book knowledge but they the book knowledge has led them to see the thing intimately and then they can speak according to what the book says that's very valid because it has it includes this intimacy this oneness essentially with what the words are saying if someone has a great photographic memory and they can debate this and laugh and and they haven't really seen what its pointee from for me as far as what we're looking for as seekers I would say that is not very worthwhile so this is an encouragement for us to drop out of our head it sounds like I'm keep going I'm suggesting that we stay very much in our head because we have to understand and so we think understanding is something of the head of the intellect of the mind and someone might say well I thought actually I thought spirituality is dropping out of the mind what believe it or not what I'm talking about here is dropping out of the mind dropping out of being caught and completely identified with thinking because what happens is when we are completely identified with thinking is we believe that the concepts are the thing that is being spoken about and so then we will keep looking at the concepts in our head without ever looking outside of our thinking so this is why there is the pointer in a lot of spirit don't mistake the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself don't mistake the map of the terrain as don't mistake it for the terrain itself because you can look at the map and think you know the terrain and you can say where all the houses are and all the shops are um and actually have no idea about the terrain and not realize that you don't have any idea about the terrain you might be convinced but because you have been looking at the map for so long and you have it memorized that you know the terrain very well only to find if attention is directed outside of them you say that's just a pointer to the real terrain that exists independent of the map this is a real a real phenomena that happens through seeking but it is what it causes the suffering before seeking this very phenomena of being caught in our head and not realizing it so before before we can become proficient at relating to concepts in a healthy way because we are not identifying with the concepts absolutely often spirituality realizes that we have such a unhealthy obsession with thinking that it says let me not give any concepts let me point away from the realm of concepts and in fact the teachings might say that the concepts are the problem because when we relate to concepts originally there is only the capacity to relate to them and become lost in them and completely identified with the concept which is not at all the level on which freedom is found freedom 20:04 is a breaking of that identification with concepts and so what is often encouraged is a feeling start feeling we have a great capacity in our body to feel life and it doesn't require us to think about life in order to feel it and we need to hear this over and over we need to be convinced that we are lost in our head in order for there to be a motivation or I don't want to be lost in my head I don't want to be on the level at which truths can't be known and truths can't be known in our head if we are seekers of truth or if one wants to know oneself or if one wants to see life without seeing it through a lens that essentially turns life into an illusion or enforces a delusion on us then we need to drop out of the head so if we hear descriptions like that there is a motivation for some people to drop out of the head and say i okay um this is something that I feel is important and so the the aiding of that is to say you have to feel we have lost touch with our capacity to feel because we have been so locked in the head and I remember when this component was being emphasized through the books I was reading the way I started to have my attention directed I noticed one day someone asked me how are you feeling today um are you doing well or something like this and I answered the question and I noticed my eyes moving up to the so of looking up towards the sky of my head which is a telltale sign that I'm looking for an answer in my intellect I'm thinking about something intellectually and I answered the question and I realized as I was answering it that I was just giving um I wasn't giving the true answer to the question that the question was how do you feel today I didn't realize I wasn't giving the answer until it dawned on me and I also realized I've always answered question in this way answering the question how do you feel without actually knowing how I feel and I didn't know that I didn't know how I feel I thought that if I answer the question based on what seems like the right answer to give in my head so I go to my head and I say okay how do i what is the answer to this question how do I feel so I go to my head to find out what the answer to this question is and um in one moment I might say oh I'm pretty good right in the other 'mo in another circumstance where I'm let's assume it's the same circumstance one day I might the answer might be I'm pretty good another day it might be oh you know it's not so great at the moment because my work situation is uncertain now the different answer isn't because the circumstance is different assume the circumstance is the same I have an uncertain work situation it's just that in one moment my head is telling me it's appropriate to say this I'm fine and another time my head says oh tell them about your uncertain work situation and I realized I wasn't answering the question from feeling and I said well where do I feel if I want to answer that question more accurately and the the pointers who were talking about you have to come into your body we're lost in the 24:59 head and it in that moment had happened that I paid attention to the body something I wasn't really accustomed to doing and it's not really hard to do it if your attention gets directed there if there's a reason that's saying but I figured that I had always thought it was unnecessary or that thinking was more appropriate I didn't know that that was happening so attention moved into the body and said okay how would I answer that question based on getting direct feedback from the body about how I feel now I'm not necessarily suggesting that the only right answer to the question how do you feel is to go into your body feel and then give that answer that's I'm not saying that whenever anyone asks you how you feel that it might not be appropriate to make up a answer that is considered by you to be the better answer even though it doesn't answer the question right but what I am pointing out is that we may never even know that that Faculty of feeling is available if we never drop our attention into the body and a lot of seeking doesn't go very far because this disconnection between the head and the body remains in place and so then what is spoken about in spiritual teachings is something we don't have direct reference to we really don't know what is being spoken about because what is being spoken about in spiritual teachings is a connection to the body it's in on this level that we can start feeling the core aspects of the human being that have been forgotten and overlooked we'll never find consciousness as it's pointed at in spiritual teachings on the level of thinking and when we hear about knowing oneself it's really an it's a it's a pointer to know oneself to be oneself to feel oneself to feel the call awareness and beingness that runs through the human being and so if the question is you know what am i oh who am i and someone answers oh I am consciousness but they're answering I am consciousness because that's the answer that they've heard to this question over and over again you are oh I am the formless awareness in which everything arises and yet there is no connection to that that that is a completely in a sense wrong answer to the question if someone hears the question who who are you what are you at your core the answer that question is dropping into being you have to you you only know the answer when you are being the answer to the question when you have your own direct feedback to the question and the question isn't really aren't asking you to give a reply to the question of the question Who am I doesn't want a verbal or written answer to the question the verbal or written answer to the question at best if they're valid they're at best a description of what you have as your direct reference of yourself so if you know yourself as formless beingness that is that is right now and is unaffected by the circumstance remains intact and is always there then if you know yourself as that you might be able to you might be able to answer it might be valid to say I am the formless awareness or beingness that is unaffected by circumstance it's only 30:02 really valid if you if if an herbal or written answer is really called for when the question is put forward Who am I because when your being the answer you know that that's the answer and that answering it verbally or in a written form is it uncomplete lee unnecessary uncalled-for in that question and so a little smile to whoever are if it was asked by a teacher for example a little smile from that place of being is the arm this is like okay there you go that that's a sign that the person is the answer is knowing the answer so in in this teaching we start off at the beginning of the satsang usually not exactly today but saying these talks are about something very specific happiness for the human being in this life continuous unbroken happiness in this life and that happiness is a very simple thing it's the end of the arising of the psychological suffering which is always based on your attitude to the circumstance and when the human being is a is designed by life and is a particular way that an a certain attitude to circumstance that is an attitude of involvement of needing life to look a certain way feeling like I am making it happen or you are making it happen when the human beings designed a certain way then that attitude is forced to become an uncomfortable layer that obscures a connection to oneself and becomes an uncomfortable layer on top of the pleasure or pain of the flow of life an uncomfortable layer which is an uncomfortableness with oneself because of the involvement the attachment to the pleasure or pain of the circumstance how do you feed your being you don't need to feed it because it is already so it's always fully grown what can be fed is the we can strengthen our capacity to turn our attention on to that level and drop it into that place of beingness so that and and when that movement happens it can feel like the beingness my beingness is growing maybe it is because we um don't really understand anything really well but I would say that actually it's always there in its fullness and there are sort of coverings over it which are these intellectual blocks and as we strengthen the movement from head to heart we're effectively getting past the blocks or shedding the blocks and so it feels in a way like it's getting stronger but it's really our capacity to know where to look first time so when when we're not sure where something is you look at a picture and they say find this and you found it once and then they show you the picture again and find it and you can't really remember where it was so you have to look again oh there it is but once you're really familiar with it each time you look at this very complex picture and you're looking for a small thing you know exactly where to look and that's in a way that this connection is about a familiarity so the more often that that path is trodden the more familiar we are with the path like someone who walks through a forest regularly they don't get lost and it becomes second nature or first nature even to rest there we can rest there without 35:02 needing to drop into this being all the time and I'll talk a little bit more about um an exercise that helps strengthen this pathway but before before I do going back to the peace of mind being the end of suffering the end of this attitude to life this attitude of needing things to be different feeling defined by outcomes feeling defined by what someone has said to you or what they didn't do that is that attitude is always based on an intellectual story of the thinking mind and it it perpetuates and feels really strong when we are lost in the mind when we have no connection to anything outside of the mind then that attitude which is suffering is prevalent strong and what's more important is it feels completely true it feels like the problem is the fact that I've lost my job or this person is talking about me behind my back or this person has let me down the feeling of uncomfortableness which is a certain attitude to outcomes when there is no other perspective is so uncomfortable and it seems like it is completely about the circumstance so if I were to say to someone who feels completely attacked and uncomfortable with themselves because of the way that someone has been speaking about them I say you know it's all about the attitude and not about what that person is saying to you I said really what the person says about you it doesn't touch who you really are you are complete to them that's some sort of theory in a way it's some sort of at best manipulation of the mind to try and feel better in a situation that is unacceptable that's what I would expect someone who is heavily invested in the situation meaning that there is an attitude towards the pain being delivered by the other person as an attack on Who I am and a feeling that this just isn't acceptable if I were to say actually you the circumstance doesn't the circumstance is not the problem what they're saying about you is not the problem I wouldn't expect that to be believable based on the way that the feeling feels for the one suffering I wouldn't expect my my words to have any impact or to be received with any depth they just if the words compared to the way someone is feeling when there is deep suffering won't mean anything because suffering is so convincing and the suffering says the problem is the circumstance and so we spend our life trying to change circumstance trying to control circumstance because all the feedback we've ever got is it's about circumstance if we find ourselves dropping into the body and feeling there is the beginning of hope there is the beginning of understanding and knowing ourselves as we are prior to our self-image our self-image is on the layer of thinking it is an idea about Who I am and that idea creates a disconnection from what I really am at my core the part that is at peace with someone talking about you behind their back behind your back it is at peace with 40:03 being cheated not necessarily a peace in the moment because in the moment the body is being affected by something and so the body will respond in the moment and that is very um that's what in this teaching is referred to as the biological reaction in the moment and if we think that the biological reactions are going to become peaceful we're misunderstanding the two layers the the body gets pushed let's say and is pushed onto a road a busy road and suddenly the body will grab onto you know the person that maybe has pushed them to prevent the body from going on the road and it might get angry hey what are you doing be careful once that biological reaction has happened the core of who we are is not interested in what happened thirty seconds ago or two minutes ago and the biological hit action a7 and then there is internal peace about being pushed or being cheated or being lied to the attitude of attachment to outcomes will be upset for years sometimes about situations or a whole lifetime or continually upset about all sorts of things that are continually happening in life and that is our disconnection from the part of ourself that remains present meaning it doesn't hang on to what happened two minutes ago ten months ago two years ago five years ago and so that part the core of us is at peace the biological reaction has happened and it subsides and so then outside of the biological reactions there is peace and even while the biological reaction is happening on the level of attitude there is a peace with the body functioning biologically the way it functions and would circumstance being whatever it happens to be with an understanding we aren't in control of those happenings so this equanimity starts being a possibility when there is a connection to ourself and our self allows us to be quiet more and more often in life allows us to watch life without being involved in it without needing to comment about it without especially needing to judge it or change it so that's what roux is referred to as the witnessing aspect now that doesn't mean the thinking mind witnessing and if we're lost in thinking if we're only caught if we're caught up on the level of thinking the witness when we hear about witnessing is we the thinking here oh I the thinking because that's where we think I exists when we're caught on the level of the mind says I need to witness and so then there is at best a thinking narrative that believes that it is witnessing because when the entity on the level of thought hears witnessing it says okay I have to do this I'm going to do witnessing and it isn't the witnessing that is being spoken about in spiritual teachings that is actually an involvement that is the opposite of witness witnessing it is thinking it is the thinker doing witnessing whereas the witnessing the quiet witnessing is about a dropping into being and we find our the beingness is witnessing it isn't a witnessing of thought is the natural function function of being aware and feeling like I exist I am and resting in that I am this is enough it is self confirming and there can be a relaxation in that it's like oh I am it's not I need to be come when we feel I need to 45:04 become when we're in the thinking and the thinking does feel like things need to change in order for there to be a completeness or in order for everything to be okay I need to work very hard get everything perfect and then I'll be okay so on the level of thinking there is no relaxation because it has a job to do all the time it has the job of fixing life as we start to connect to our being there is the first hand recognition which means we feel we know I can relax here I don't have a job to do I don't need to make myself more because I am and I'm not really talking about I as the person that the core that I'm saying we can rest into is a aspect of the person when we're resting in that being and we feel I am complete it's not saying I am perfect on all the levels of the personality and that I can't you know get healthier for example if the doctor says I have high cholesterol I am and I am perfect doesn't mean that there aren't aspects of the biological and personality that purpose but we're not when we rest in our being what is self-evident is even with those imperfections I am and I'm complete and those imperfections will get dealt with or won't get dealt with as a course of the body moving through life so this connection with the core is a self confirming and assert unknowing of oneself the self that is right now always is whenever the movement down into the heart happens guess what we find there oh I am there you'll never drop into the heart and find that the beingness has gone on vacation so that's what's referred to by the ever-present the unchanging I am the so beingness so if you drop in once a day it's there if you find yourself dropping in and you don't need to make any announcements you're coming and you drop in random just now I hear it it so it means it's always there and from their life that can be a relaxation because there's nothing to do nothing to fix nothing to change and then I might say ah that's what it means that it's not about the circumstance my friend lied to me and we drop into being and we feel hi it's okay whereas when that wasn't available the feeling of being involved in the fact that your best friend has lied to you is of complete uncomfortableness and the feeling in that complete uncomfortableness saying I am like this because of the actions of the other what it turns out is that that feeling was because of ära our attachment to the action of the other which really means our attachment to the pleasure or pain of life the feeling defined which is a mental self-image feeling that I am attacked by pain and added to by pleasure or attacked by the absence of love and added to by the presence of love or the deliverance the deliverance of love from the other and that's the self-image and when that's at play the feeling is it is about circumstance so dropping into being allows us to have first-hand understanding of what the spiritual teachings are saying 50:04 so when you're listening to all these words hopefully there can be an openness I suggest if the words get too much actually all the words are talking about dropping into being so the words are secondary if the words if the listening to the words are actually preventing dropping into being so I have to listen because I have the option of dropping into being but let me not miss some of this information and say actually it's about just dropping into being so if you can drop into being and in dropping into being you stop processing what I'm saying you're not losing in it actually that's all it was about so if if there is a recognition and noticing of the thinking mind or the working mind even any part of the thinking preventing a relaxation into being then that recognition can actually be a stop to the thinking and part of the dropping into being so I'm sorry to say there's no avoiding this there's no way around peace of mind you can't bypass this you can't say well I'll get peace of mind in the head it's not available if the functioning of the body-mind organism is such that even when that is described are thinking remains in the thinking remains active and an identification with the thinking remains active and there is no sense of dropping out of the thinking then the reason that is is because life is a happening life is destiny life is a creation and in this moment it's destined for the access to beingness not to be there and are fighting that is essentially more of the hid stuff added into the present moment so what I'm describing as a connection to self and the necessity in a way for peace of mind doesn't mean it's available in every moment it doesn't mean you can have what is described because you want it or because you insist on it that again is a movement of the thinking mind that continues to live in its in its imagination where the thinking mind says I heard it it sounds very good so I want it so I'm going to make it happen um the fact is that dropping into being is the cessation of that thinking mind so if the thinking mind is saying well I need it to happen now why isn't it happening now actually it's because if it happens now it is the stop of that thinking the stop of the thinking into being and it simply isn't destined for that to stop except when it's destined for it to stop now that might not be what the one that is deciding that it wants life to look a certain way to the one that has an expectation of life and one's life 54:58 experience what I've just described it's not very acceptable to it I think it just isn't destined for it to happen except when it's destined for it to happen that to the one wanting to control life that's like that's an attack that's an insult that's a an abuse on that entity that wants to control if it's not what it wants to hear as well as being said is essentially you aren't in control of life if that information is received by the working mind which is the functional part of our thinking functional part of our intellect and it gets it it says oh I see that I can't control even my own thinking then if the thinking is obsessive and keeps us on the level of thinking at least an aspect of our intellect says we're in India we can one of the greatest little pick ups in India's what to do know what to do it's like it's how it is so if the working mind understands that life is not in its control the working mind is an aspect of the intellect the thinking mind that wants to control life is also an aspect of the intellect the thinking mind is where all the suffering thinking originates and it's because there is a certain set of beliefs the working mind is an aspect of the same intellect but it's what we could say the functional part of the intellect and if it receives this information that I'm very sorry life is not in your control even your own thinking is not in your control the thinking is a result of a program machine and this information that is being given to the working mind is new conditioning that can recondition the Machine recondition the intellect the working mind can hear that information become reconditioned with that new information and understand that it's not in control and then that means that a person's intellect has misunderstanding which is the thinking mind trying to control life and now a level of understanding within the same system so it's like a revolution a revolutionary force has is being formed so before the revolutionary force was formed the government of the day which is the thinking mind trying to control things seeing itself as the doer feeling that it's identity is defined by outcomes that got to run rampant with no checks and balances and if the working mind starts to be equipped with different information it starts interfering with the functioning of the thinking mind and so it can come up and say stop this thinking and that stop can create a dropping into being at other times the think the working mind the functional part will say stop this thinking is neurotic it is suffering and the suffering doesn't stop and the working line will go that's it's destined even with my interference in this moment for the thinking mind not to stop so then the working mind sits back it's done its job understanding that its job is just to recognize and it may or may not stop the thinking mind so if this discussion sets in place a strong belief I must be able to drop into being that's in the thinking mind the working mind understands there is this place of being that is outside of the thinking mind and the dropping into being will happen if 59:58 it's destined the dropping may if it's destined include the working mind popping up and saying stop and then are dropping into being happens but if it's destined for the dropping not to happen the working mind might say stop and the thinking carries on and if that understanding of the working mind is there it won't get further involved in it it might say this too shall pass when it's destined it appears from from what you said right now that the description of a binding abiding in your i am-ness is is an antidote for for not feeling complete yes however the description of the thinking the the description you've offered for the thinking mind which is I'm not the doer I mean the reason I have a problem is because my thinking mind thinks I am the doer and my thinking mind attaches itself to outcomes because it feels incomplete it appears that from what you've said maybe I should spend a little more time just hanging out with my beingness however that would occur rather than confuse myself with these thinking tools what what would you how would you offer an observation to that yes so um the thinking tools for example are what I'm suggesting to the working mind right that says things like the working mind may recognize the working mind might become equipped to see that the thinking mind is the suffering so that is a strengthening of a a thinking tool for the working mind to understand or actually the thinking mind is the problem the working mind can be equipped to understand that cutting off of the thinking mind means the end of the problem right but the working mind can also be equipped to understand it isn't in control of what happens in each moment with both thinking mind and the working mind so essentially that's just information now if you find that your system is such that the thoughts or the the thinking that is being offered to the work in mind the functional descriptions if you find that there is the capacity a movement into dropping into being without needing anymore equipping of the working mind maybe without the working mind even needing to do of any specific thinking then I completely agree that all of this talking is irrelevant because the whole talk is about abiding in I am more dropping out of the the realm of thinking which includes the working mind so this is why when the working mind says stop it doesn't get into an argument with the thinking mind because the working mind if it did that would be the thinking mind getting into an argument with the thinking mind the working mind says stop and it either it knows the thinking mind is either going to stop or it's not going to stop to the working mind when it is properly equipped won't get into a big extended dialogue it will just act delivering the wisdom and see what result is is offered what comes of it if there is a movement within your body mind organism that allows a dropping into beingness without 1:04:58 any further explanations then that's much better in fact all the explanations are just to help so so then my question is towards the end of yesterday's conversation with us you had indicated that there were certain exercises that you do in your retreats and you were thinking of doing it today as to how it may help you sort of drop in to your being yes if those exercises are things that you do I'm curious as to why you spend more time on the thinking tools rather than the dropping into being exercises uh-huh because none of these things in isolation on their own are the complete antidote they're all part of the human being changing and it's a gradual usually it's a gradual change and then in time the person finds themselves automatically functioning differently to the way they did three years ago or six months ago um so all of these different tools via the conceptual framework that describes peace of mind and what peace of mind is described suffering describe what the root beliefs are at the bottom of suffering describes a different forms that suffering takes describes the flow of life as being pleasure or pain describes our happiness as not being found in pleasure or pain but rather being found in our attitude so that's the conceptual framework that includes lots of fairly simple but poignant pointers and descriptions for the person to observe and say is that true in my experience if do I find that that concept holds true because in investigating all the concepts we essentially are becoming more and more familiar with the outer and the inner landscape and that is one part of it but if we explore that inner and outer landscape and yet we find that a dropping into being isn't happening because that hasn't really been emphasized in the framework or if it's been emphasized it's or if it's been spoken about it maybe has been spoken about in a way that doesn't provide specific instruction that someone can then follow or find happening regularly through their life so that's why the talk about being and dropping into being is then also offered because what is what then happens is you have a person that has been exposed to information about the conceptual framework and that person will find an investigation automatically when you tasting good food you might have the thought oh this is pleasure in the moment when you find out you've missed your plane or it's been delayed you might say oh this is pain in the moment and my happiness isn't to be found and outcomes now if that isn't accompanied with a dropping into your being then something's missing because your plane will be delayed and then you'll in a way you'll just be convincing yourself like call saying my happiness isn't to be found and outcomes but what that concept my happiness isn't to be found and outcomes is really doing is meant to be a a reminder to drop into being so if a movement into the heart hasn't also been established then the plane will be delayed will say my happiness isn't to be found and outcomes and then we find ourselves in the same situation maybe disconnected from our being and the suffering is still there if we find ourselves the plane delayed by happiness isn't to be found in outcomes assuming we start we're feeling uncomfortable about the plane being delayed and we drop into being then we get here I am it's okay that my plane is being has been bit delayed it will be that will be the the experience experiential feedback in the moment is I'm okay my plane being delayed is on one level and inconvenience but on the 1:10:03 level of self it isn't it's inconsequential so that's why these different areas are spoken about in order to cultivate each area because all of these different areas and there's not just those two there's the some others that I had spoken about they all need to work together come together and work together and as they start working together that is the process of the human being changing it it's the human being finding they drop into being more regularly than before more regularly than before the exercise was spoken about more regularly than before they did the exercise several times a day and therefore they can see all as I spend time contemplating as I spend time looking at life differently feeling I see myself changing because that's essentially what's happening is we're cultivating aspects of ourself that weren't cultivated and in doing so we're changing ourselves and when I say we're changing yourself really depends what perspective you're looking at I'm throwing the information out to a body mind organism that is designed to receive new conditioning it's always received new conditioning from life and that new conditioning in one way or another becomes part of its up-to-date-conditioning so when I say you practice dropping into being really what I mean is there is no you as a doer but there is you as a newly conditioned instrument functioning automatically according to your new conditioning which may be the dropping into being maybe what is called the exercise happening two or three times a day of dropping into being so from one perspective you are not doing it it's happening because life has changed your makeup so that it has to happen if life didn't change your makeup that exercise wouldn't happen life changes your makeup meaning it introduces something that says it really is important for this muscle this movement to be strengthened and if that hits home and you say actually I feel like that is something that's important that I have neglected let's saying then it starts happening and it's not your doing there is no one there is no doer doing anything in life ever no one no one has ever done anything as a separate independent doer everything that has ever happened is happening according to each person's particular makeup that they didn't control and so if I say you are changing your makeup what I really mean is the functioning the different functioning through you is a feedback loop that is changing your makeup would you bill would you be able to take a few moments to describe what you experience and feel when you are dropped into your being um yes I will I'll describe it not as I feel it because at some point even beingness becomes irrelevant beingness is particular relevant when suffering is the norm or is at least what is there sometimes and there needs to be a very particular platform to drop into out of suffering and that platform is dropping out of thinking into the heart and when we drop out of thinking into the heart there is a fairly strong contrast between the the sense of self and therefore the experience in the moment a strong contrast between the sense of self and the experience between living in the 1:15:02 thinking mind which is a the psychological self image what Ramona Ramona would refer to as AI or self with a small s and then compared to the contrast of dropping into the heart where there is a knowing of the self with a capital S which is referred to in Ramona's teaching as AI so there is a contrast and your question is essentially saying can you describe the contrast or at least describe what it feels like to be in the heart or in beingness the best way is to say it is simply the absence of the neurotic narrative that is judging one self and the other expecting life to be a particular way regretting expectations so in other words it is most accurately described as the absence of the uncomfortableness of that thinking which inherently in it is our self-image our sense false sense of self so um if I was going to do a skit and in the head there is a person that's saying I can't believe I missed my bus that was because I didn't put enough attention on setting the alarm the night before and actually I told you to set the alarm and you didn't want to so you you said no you do it I don't know how to do it you should have done it actually it's your fault but then at the same time the person you know this means now I just feel terrible that we've missed the flight so this is the ask it let's say of the thinking mind in actions these thoughts when you are dropped into being the thoughts do continue to arise it's not like you stopped thinking right thing you just somehow are immune from their effect on you in some fashion is that correct well description no I I would say in the in the skit um and I didn't I'm implying that this is about a narrative a verbal narrative between two people right husband and wife let's say about the setting of an alarm clock the missing of waking up too late and all of that it's not so much about a verbal narrative it's rather and in how we will be thinking about the situation when it happens on the level of thought and maybe that turns into a verbal narrative if we drop into being if I could if we had that narrative going drop into being narrative stops as a it's like the noisy neighbors let's say which actually are yourself and in your own being stop because on the level of the thinking mind what happens is seems like it is paramount it is most important that the unfolding of the day according to the expectation is what's paramount and when it doesn't turn out that way there is an obsession with finding out who is to blame either me or the other and usually even if it's me then I'll find a reason why it's the other and there is this obsession because the thinking mind includes in it a hypothetical I that requires things to be a certain way in order to be complete in order to survive and it's continually fighting against what is actually happening trying to justify it as not how things should be and I'm going to rectify how things should be so that is the the self-image of the thinking mind it can't help itself if if that structure is in place there will be this involvement in the flow of life and there isn't any silence it never really stops because it always will find something wrong and even when it's enjoying a pleasant situation will be popping up saying when is this going to end and what it's going to what am I going to feel like when this ends and so that thinking is actually even disturbing the pleasure of the moment you know I'm in the last three days of your holiday of your 10-day holiday you 1:20:01 start the thinking mind starts thinking about the fact that I now I'm gonna have to go back to work and and then your last three days aren't even enjoyed because the thinking mind has its narrative which disturbs even pleasurable circumstance in the moment of dropping into being all of those stories belong to a different in tied entity they don't belong to the identity that we are prior to that psychological identity the psychological identity which I'm referring to as the thinking mind which is based on the false belief that it is the doer the other is the doer and one's happiness is found on the level of circumstance so as soon as we drop into being that story belongs to a different person or a different identity and we find this entity doesn't have that story so if you if you speak to the heart and you think what do you what do you think about the unfortunate circumstance that happened the alarm clocks didn't get set correctly and you know now you've missed the plane and it's going to cost you $100 or $200 the heart is like I think you might said what do you mean yeah this is important maybe this is the home this is everyone's home this is not for special people it's the core of every human being it's just that the thinking mind has become overly stimulated and activated and fed by life circuit life's new conditioning and so then the birthright of every human being to be connected to their being is not taken away because in any moment we can drop into this being if our makeup gets adjusted so if it's it and then we realize I wasn't missing anything I just had an over active part of myself that took center stage so the encouragement is moving away so a recognizing an awareness of this thinking mind that is simply not at peace with life when it when life is good or bad I mean yeah even when it's good umm the thinking mind is not really satisfied because it doesn't feel complete even when things are good so it has the idea that it's completeness will be found in pleasure but it says but obviously not the pleasure in this moment but a pleasure in the future so it has an imagination it it believes that it will one day be okay when something happens in the future but in the future when that pleasure is delivered it finds it still isn't okay so we can see that the belief that happiness and completeness is to be found in pleasure actually is a mistake and that's why the teachings tend to say you know it's not to be found out there it's about looking within the Poynting so really within means out of the thinking which is outward looking if that shrinks then by default all there is is within we can look at it and say it happens because of grace usually when we say um it happens because of grace we don't really know what that means 1:24:58 for me in this situation grace means a certain process happening for a person that that as a result of shifting a shifting of priorities from thinking into being because of a recognition that the thinking is the disturbance is the uncomfortableness and hopefully some glimpses some firsthand recognitions of the simplicity of just putting the thoughts on hold for a second ah this is what it means that I'm already complete that circumstance is not such a problem is not as important as I think because when we drop out of thinking we find it's not so important circumstances and so important um so grace means that movement happening now that movement doesn't just happen it happens because we're exposed to certain words certain concepts what I'm talking about today is part of your destiny you weren't in control of that you know I'm not today I might have decided to talk about something very different so as we look at it we see the new conditioning is not in your control how it what changes it brings about not in your control um and yet if those things that are out of your control lead to that process I just described then peace of mind sets in and in hindsight ways we can say wow that wasn't my doing because it was dependent on so many factors not in my control yet it happened and so it's grace is is doing the exercise still in the cards for today let's have a look yes we can do the exercise I mean the exercise is not too much different from what was spoken about yesterday it's an exercise of in a way becoming present it's not much different from exactly what I've been talking about through this whole satsang about dropping into being but I'll describe what might happen when you're walking down the street and so essentially the description may become what happens because of the description in part and when it happens which is not a great there's no great happening to it it's just it's sort of like you're walking on this these exercise a bit like walking along the street and you see a dumbbell meaning those were you know weight and arm weight and you're walking along the street you see the dumbbell and you think oh it's time for me to do 10 arm curls so if the dumbbell is on the right side of the foot path that means 10 arm curls with the right if it's on the left 10 of the left and at the end of your week you've found yourself doing arm curls whenever you notice these dumbbells on the side of the road and so that's an exercise that is repeating itself because let's say someone says whenever you see a dumbbell on the side of the road if you have no reason not to do ten arm curls with it and if you do that then at the end of the week you would have done many more arm curls than if you didn't pick up the dumbbells so these this description of the exercise is sort of just something like that it's an exercise that you can do at any time when a trigger reminds that to happen and included in the exercise is a lot of the pieces of wisdom that come in the form of the conceptual framework that is normally spoken about so before we do the exercise let me recap on some of the important information that needs to be incorporated into this word I am which 1:29:59 will be part of the exercise it so the word I am the thought I am is part of the exercise but that thought I am when it arises includes a lot of understanding in it specific understanding um of the framework so the frameworks is what we're really looking for what's available for the human being whether we realize it or not is happiness for the human being in daily living continuous unbroken happiness that happiness comes in a very specific form peace of mind that is the happiness available for the human being that is enlightenment for the human being finding themselves continuously happy in life but that happiness is not a citement happiness or joy happiness or feeling of love happiness it is peace of mind and so instead of happiness we can say peace of mind so enlightenment is continuous unbroken peace of mind and daily living enlightenment is just the end of suffering so when there is no suffering there is peace of mind peace of mind is not something it's not a great feeling it's not excitement it's not bliss it is the absence of suffering suffering if you we use the analogy of a headache now a headache isn't suffering a headache is pain right but it's an analogy if in the analogy we have a headache and then the headache subsides good health is not the gaining of something it's not a warm fuzzy feeling or anything it's just the absence of the headache and peace of mind is not the gaining of a feeling but the absence of the uncomfortableness of suffering so it's very important for us to know that point because then the seeking that happens can be relevant to that point so this exercise is relevant to the fact that all we're looking for in life it's a great gift when life is lived free of suffering not a great gift in the sense that you have something added in that is positive views it's just that this very heavy load has been extracted so if you compare the two if you don't compare if you just take peace of mind as the absence of suffering and you don't compare it to the presence of suffering someone would look at it and go what's the big deal I haven't got anything I haven't been given millions of dollars or superhuman powers or any benefit in life why is every what's the big deal about this enlightenment if it's just not nothing that is added in because that's why actually spirituality doesn't often described it as peace of mind it describes it as bliss because if describes as peace of mind most people are not interested and they're not gonna hang around the teachings so at the early stages it's described as bliss to keep people interested because people are looking for something bliss sounds great peace of mind not so good when you actually become aware of suffering and honor and it's like the first noble truth life is suffering and you become aware of your suffering in life and you become aware that the problem actually is this feeling of uncomfortableness whether it takes the form of despair depression shame in its fairly intense forms or boredom less intense form blame towards the others all the time judging life expecting things a certain way not getting them and feeling you know uncomfortable judging this person is not appropriate because of the clothes they wear and this one's too fat and this one doesn't follow the right religion um and you realize wow what a what a load I'm carrying around when I'm functioning like this and you really appreciate that this is the problem not so much the fact that someone is wearing those clothes and follows that religion and you know is not the shape that we have in in mind 1:34:59 it's not so much that it's our involvement in that that's the uncomfortableness that's the suffering so one of the beginning points is to recognize that to acknowledge it to say this is the problem this this uncomfortable feeling is the problem if someone weighs you know red clothes and I'm not in and I don't mind I don't care I'm not involved then the fact they're wearing red clothes is no problem but when I'm continually thinking that the world is not quite right because they're wearing red clothes or orange clothes or pink clothes or whatever then my attitude to their pink clothes is disturbing my life experience um so it's very important for us to become clear that it's our attitude that creates this uncomfortableness not the pink clothes then we can compare peace of mind which is life without the load of guilt and blame and pride worrying expectation which we are very familiar with because that's our life experience as a seeker then we can start comparing that to peace of mind um when it starts coming in so we might find that there is a day or a week or a month where there is peace of mind where we find I'm not interested I don't mind you wear whatever color you want you know I just find myself not involved in it I find myself resting in my being and realize I'm okay and the world can be as it is then we compare one way of being suffering with peace of mind and it starts to become more obvious what a gift that is the absence of suffering so that's very important for us to know what it is we're seeking the description of the different forms of suffering let's just take blame towards the other and judgment about what someone is wearing the pink clothes or the way that they treat me because they talked behind my back or whatever that's just circumstance and then we have an attitude to the circumstance which is of judgment and blame so that is part of the uncomfortableness that if we say if we feel that that's you know yeah they're going to do that that's just their makeup they're going to talk about me behind my back they've interpreted me wrong but it makes sense that that's how they see in life and I'm resting in my own being and it's not really so important and so no involvement in that and so therefore no blame so we've heard many of the stories of the monks that were accused of getting someone pregnant because they helped a lady with a baby or whatever and they were banished from the village for example and they just took that as their destiny without defending themselves the monk that went to buy some alcohol for someone and then got beaten as he was coming up because people thought he was an alcoholic and whatever and they just say I don't need to defend it because I am connected to my own being and the fact that that's the view people have is understandable incorrect or even if it is correct then they're connected to their being and that means no need to get involved no need to try and fix the situation as a matter of things being being okay so we take blame as the example we're walking down the street and we find ourselves blaming our business partner our friend parents for something that they've said to us something that they did and the working mind lands on the thinking mind blame that's happening and sees it as the suffering understands this is disturbing my peace of mind I can feel it so this is why it's important to feel to drop into feeling because when the suffering is there feel it feel the uncomfortableness of it that's part of the appreciation that 1:40:03 this is my disturbance and it's attitudinal to what someone has done it's not what they did but my attitude which is interpreting it as an attack on Who I am and needing it to be fixed and rectified so that I am not disrespected or misunderstood or and as that becomes more and more clear to the working mind the different forms as it has landed on blame on shame on expectation the exercise is whenever the working mind and awareness land on the thinking mind that action in action the thought I am arises the thought I am included in that is the understanding what's available my true nature is peace peace of mind peace of mind is the absence of suffering this blame is suffering this blame is covering up my peace of mind what I am exists prior to the thinking I have forgotten that aspect of myself while this thinking is happening and if they're thinking stops and I drop into being I remember myself and there is peace so there's a walking down the street and a recognition of the blame the thought I am arises which includes in at all that's I just said the I am might be the bookend to the you know this person my sister shouldn't have done this stop I am stop and I am really means I am you have forgotten I forgotten that I exist on a layer outside of thinking and drop into that being and maybe register that little smile happens in that moment because in the moment there is a remembering that what I am is not affected by circumstance and in that moment if the blame gets cut off and we drop into being that is the end of suffering and the emergence of peace in practical daily living for the human being when when you do this exercise do those thoughts actually go through your mind no the thought I am arises right but so I don't do this exercise right because at some point the thoughts of suffering don't arise and then there is no prompt to when you did do this when you did used to do this exercise yeah um because there was there had been so much investigation and understanding of the framework so that I had been let's say simultaneous to this exercise at different times during the day when the exercise wasn't happening I was thinking about yes blame definitely is one of the forms of suffering and then it would be seen happening and there would be a confirmation of blame as the form of suffering so the understanding of what the framework was saying was in itself deepening because of a confirmation of all of the different concepts in the framework based on an observation of the the different thinking thinking about contemplating bits of the framework that maybe didn't make sense contemplating them until they did make sense and so then the framework is essentially part of my being as well so another exercise is the examining of the conceptual frameworks based on your own experience and that is the deepening of that when that's deep and we're told something that can be very helpful is the cutting off the automatic cutting off of the suffering when it happens and that can get cut off with the arising of the thought I am that allows you to drop into your being so what I described as all that thinking is essentially thinking that has happened previously the understanding of the framework is part of my being and 1:44:58 it's all condensed into the very short thought I am which is really just a a remembrance a reminder when the suffering is seen the thinking is seen it's basically reminding me you've forgotten who you are because the blame is a false sense of self or based on a false sense of so you've forgotten who you are remember who you are which means stop the story about yourself and be yourself so in an instant the whole thing happens in instant awareness lands on the blame and the exercise is essentially so seeing the blame is like seeing the dumbbell and you see the dumbbell simultaneously to seeing the blame the thought I am comes up and I am is just it's like I I am I am the knowing of I am so it's a really simple exercise when they when the system is primed appropriately this starts happening automatically and it's in you know in a particular time if you were doing it if it's if it starts being really intense you might find yourself with the thought I am happening 10 times in an hour so would you describe this exercises more intellectual than then feeling no the the understanding that suffering is the problem the different forms of suffering has sunk in starting off with an intellectual understanding of what's being spoken now it's sunk in because you followed the intellectual understanding and investigated it for yourself and and then the I am is really a cutting off of the suffering so the suffering is the thinking my thinking mind and the the thinking mind is functioning before the exercise essentially as soon as there is awareness of the thinking mind that's where the exercise starts the exercise starts with awareness this like the scene of the dumbbell on the side of the road so as soon as you see the thinking mind that's the beginning of a exercise and almost simultaneously with the [Music] seeing of the thinking mind in action the thought I am arises simultaneously so it's a thought it's not it's not a it's not a sensation or a feeling no the the thought I am is a thought but that thought I am is essentially the bookend the the end becomes the end of the thinking mind then there is a dropping which is not a thought where you are dropping into is your own beingness the beingness that is available outside of the thinking mind and that is if you could say a feeling a sense of existence the core of the human being so there's no reason why this can't happen 10 times in an hour because it's such a quick it's essentially you can change I am the word I am for stop the words stop means a stop to the thinking mind and the only way you can stop the thing you can't really stop the thinking mind with a thought you stop the thinking my word dropping into being so if you want you can get rid of I am and stop I found that it was a necessary reminder that's why I am is a word a thought that is pointing to your i am-ness it's pointing to what you are all the time prior to the thinking so I am drop into being smile now the smile is not it's not part of the exercise its it is part of the excel but it happens it's not like smile like you know because that's what the exercise is meant to be it's an automatic it's like it's the little in the when you hear about the Mona Lisa smile it's the Mona Lisa smile is referring to the the smile of the heart really it's the smile from the 1:50:04 recognition of what we are which is already all that sounds good right how many bottles of wine do I have to buy you to teach me how to do it though it's as a complimentary it's but it isn't this is the thing it's not it isn't something that can be taught but it's an automatic movement that will happen when the body mind organism has become primed so I don't know if you listen to the talks just when I come to Pune or on the internet sometimes yeah so I I found that when seeking was happening I would listen to recordings of Ramesh and some other recordings that I had a resonance with at the time um literally it's a two-hour CD and I'd listened to it four times in a day if I'm when I was travelling on the train I put it on and listen to it and well maybe it was a series of ten one-hour talks and I would start and then continue where I had left off and when I'm walking in the park although in the park I didn't really listen to stuff but um and then when I get to the end of session ten I'd listen to it again the next you know took three days to listen to all ten sessions and then I start again because it's not about new information it's about if you find this is the important information we're not going to understand that the first time as in it's not going to sink in to our being and often we there's this response I've seen that movie how many times no no just once say you can see a movie 15 times and if you're extracting information out of it each time you're extracting more information out of it so there's no problem watching it 15 times so if there's a recording then you feel it this is this is really important listen to it 20 times I mean I listen to many recordings minimum 20 times probably some 80 times and I wasn't really ever listening to the same thing I never got bored I mean I I guess now if someone said listen to the same recording 80 times but I'm sure you've got some songs some things that you like and you listen to them and the fact you've listened to it 10 times or 20 times or 30 times is irrelevant when you listen to it you like it and it can be like this with the information one--it's we're going to extract more and more layers out of it each time and listen to it so I think listening to the same thing is much better than jumping around lots of new stuff because the same thing will be reinforcing it and then you really get it so then you start functioning according to what you've absorbed so this is dropping into being [Music] this is actually the easiest movement when when it's set in and I understand that when something isn't like when we haven't realized how a switch works it can be like you know there's a pull pull door and we're pushing it and saying it just isn't opening you know and it just isn't going to open and yet we can only push it and there are certain switches inside of us that I like that they it's like we can't flick them it just seems like they're unflexible and then one day we realize oh it's this way the switch is flicked this way and I've been trying to flick it that way um and then one that we do and imma go that's so simple so simple but until the day when it's so simple it's impossible and so it's very much like that but I wouldn't I wouldn't get too concerned because it 1:55:03 becomes simple because one day we here flick the switch downwards and it's always been saying flick the switch downwards but we've been hearing flick the switch and we only ever flick switch is upwards let's say and so it says flick the switch down as downwards get it's left off and so we're always trying to flick it upwards but one day we hear downwards now if we're not listening to the same thing over and over we won't one day hear that downwards bit and this is what's referred to by the open secret you know there's been several books written with that title the open secret and it's saying the oh whatever we spoken about in spiritual teachings it's an open secret meaning it's not really a secret it's available for everyone but for so long we're looking in the opposite direction and the teachings are saying this way look this way and we're saying I'm looking I'm looking really hard and the teaching saying this way look this way I am looking and I can't see it I don't know what you're talking it the this way oh you mean that way oh why didn't you say that before it's so simple it's the UM but this isn't something really we're doing wrong it just it's our wiring is setup that we can't hear something until the wiring changes and then we hear it and that happens when it happens but not it's not so unexplainable it is it's Grace when it happens but when you look at it it's just because something has been heard and processed differently in that moment was this again a memory lead to anger well I guess with that memory you wouldn't be angry about anything in the past because you wouldn't remember it is that what you mean please repeat sir well if you had no memory you definitely wouldn't get angry about anything in the past because you wouldn't remember it but I still do not get your question was does memory lead to anger yes what do you mean by memory so for example if a very painful event has happened and during that a very painful event let us say the biological reaction anger has happened and the psychological reaction hatred has also happened and later on again and again from time to time in memory that that painful of that very painful event comes up oh then then only only hit only hatred can come or anger can also come so the memory of a painful event can trigger an attitude to the painful event um so yes memory of a painful event can trigger anger which is because it's a memory about a past event that anger is most likely to be hatred when an event is happening in the present moment the response that can happen to the event can be anger just biological anger in the present moment it doesn't depends on your attitude if there is the attitude of doer ship and attachment to outcome if there is a painful circumstance then there is going to be blame so there will be anger and blame if you have a memory of a painful event and it creates a reaction that reaction is likely to be the reaction of hatred but and that is also possible you see I say that if the anger comes up in 2:00:02 relation to the memory it is most likely hatred not pure anger but I don't think I would take that absolutely it could be that you have a memory of something an event in the moment there is anger about that event the memory of the like let's say someone cheated you and you remember that because you see their name on a billboard let's saying the same name and you remember the person who has cheated you out of a substantial amount of money that's saying and a reaction happens to that memory which could be just biological anger and the read the ex how to define whether it's just biological anger or hatred is that the hatred will extend horizontally in time the biological anger will come up and drop away quickly if if there is a simmering over it then it is most likely blame but the the best way to find out is by feeling it blame feels uncomfortable anger without blame is painful but not uncomfortable so it is important for this uncomfortableness I'm talking about to become something that someone is that you are familiar with which requires you to feel again feel the blame feel the uncomfortableness in it then you will have your own answer about whether the reaction to the memory is blame or hatred sorry whether it is pure anger biological anger or whether it is blame and hatred because you'll be familiar with what blame and hatred feels like and you'll be familiar with what pure anger feels like if obviously you have access to just pure anger because if the belief in doer ship and attachment is in the system we very rarely know what pure biological anger is because as soon as a circumstance happens that could create anger the anger arises and the blame and hatred arises simultaneous to the anger and becomes one feeling and so when we feel that we're not feeling pure anger you're feeling anger plus blame and hatred and so if it's anger plus blame and hatred it's going to feel uncomfortable I had a lot of trouble with this point when Ramesh was talking about biological anger being different to blame because I would feel into the anger when it would arise and I say I'm sorry I can't understand what you're saying Ramesh when when anger is there its blame and he kept saying Raja anger like sadness is a biological reaction not a psychological reaction it is a biological reaction and not suffering it is not an attitude to the circumstance but a biological response in the moment towards the circumstance and I kept going to my experience of anger and having felt it I said I don't I can't agree I feel anger feel the anger when I feel it there is there is blame and suffering it is blame and suffering and he kept insisting on this point and because he was always right at some point I came to see that he was right and I came I I was able to understand understand it by realizing that there was still a judgment about anger from my side I had the expectation that liberation peace of mind meant the end of anger and so whenever anger would arise my judgment of it would turn it into anger plus suffering anger plus blame towards the other for making me angry which was meant my enlightenment wasn't there or anger towards myself blamed towards myself for getting angry which meant my enlightenment wasn't hadn't happened yet and when I realized this because if if I listen to what he's 2:05:04 saying anger is just a biological reaction it isn't a disturbance of your peace of mind and even after liberation anger as a biological reaction can still happen so if I listen to that I went I go ah so liberation doesn't mean the end of biological anger and then I realized I had the expectation that it didn't mean the end of biological action biological reaction and therefore whenever the biological reaction arose there was a simultaneous layer of suffering so it occurred to me in that moment what I'm feeling when I say I'm feeling anger is not pure anger it's anger plus suffering so that's why I couldn't agree with remissions description of anga is a biological reaction and it's not suffering I couldn't agree because I was not just believing what he said I was feeling and it felt like suffering only after a series of thinking happened did I realize I wasn't feeling pure anger and so intellectually that had been worked out in my system and then two weeks later I found the for the first time biological anger arose with no judgment around it and then I there is biological anger that now I can agree is not blame when I feel it I feel the anger come up and there's no uncomfortableness with oneself and that was after that was actually in my experience the last bit of the puzzle that I hadn't that hadn't fallen into place when that fell into place everything made sense every there didn't seem like anything else was out of place so that was what I would have called the end of the seeking actually until then there was a confusion in my system about around biological anger and peace of mind I wasn't clear on it and then a series of events happened that made it intellectually clear about where my misunderstanding might be so I said what if he's right what if biological anger is just a biological reaction that it will continue to happen even after liberation and that it isn't a disturbance of my peace of mind what if he's right and by acknowledging that my system changed and then two weeks later a situation happened biological anger arose but this time without the accompanying blame and I felt it and I he's right here it is biological anger without the blame but if the belief of do ership and attachment in its different forms are in place we may never we won't feel the pure biological anger until those systems weaken sufficiently right so in summary if you have a memory the biological anger that comes up in relation to that memory may just be pure biological anger or it will be biological anger and hatred and the way to know is to have a have a familiarity man familiarity with the uncomfortableness of suffering and then to be able to feel in that moment is that an uncomfortableness of suffering or is it just pain of anger thank you okay so the experience you just shared was that after your liberation and if yes does that mean there is a process after as well of piecing the pieces of the puzzle so they're still uncovering of knowledge essentially which is being seeked essentially yet so let let me first make way I don't really go around saying I'm liberated or in this teaching it it calls liberation something very simple the end of suffering no special powers or understanding the universe or [Music] union with God in some mystical 2:10:03 experience way in in this teaching in says enlightenment is simply the end of suffering and so if we use that definition then I can say yes okay liberation has happened because suffering doesn't arise in daily living anger still does but there we've just been through the distinction between biological reactions and the psychological reactions but um up to that point the suffering was still arising in those instances when anger would arise there was still suffering so according to this definition when the suffering was still arising there wasn't liberation it hadn't happened because the suffering was still arising now I have to say that that suffering was fairly irregular and not very intense but it would still happen and so we could say there was a lot of peace of mind but the peace of mind was disturbed from time to time when that last type of suffering continued to arise so until the suffering all the forms of suffering fall away meaning that they are no longer part of one's attitude then we would say that liberation hasn't happened but in a way if you have very little suffering arising who cares about liberation on a deliberation I mean if you have ten minutes of suffering in a week who cares that that will be your attitude actually it's like if that ten minutes dissolves and then there's no minutes of suffering well great but you know in practical terms if there's ten minutes of suffering really the cleanest who cares now that attitude of who cares is actually much closer to enlightenment really then oh it hasn't happened because there's ten minutes of suffering because that other attitude of others is where we have turned it into something to achieve and we've missed the fact that ten minutes out of a week is like so what in stand and we must have then turned it into being something so absolut which is missing the point that it's actually just the absence of suffering so is so technically liberation hasn't happened until there is no more suffering and after liberation which is being very specifically Devine defined it's not really the end of the road I would say life is never a never-ending journey there is a point along the way where which you could call awakening weather or where there are very significant insights that happen about oneself the seeing of Nandu ship let's say in in clarity on a particular peak experience or a particular occasion and then after those deep scenes and those deep insights suffering still arises as a sort of remnants of what is of the beliefs that are still in the system but those insights become very important at being part of the diminishing process of the beliefs that remain and hence the suffering that happens so that's more akin to what you were talking about where the suffering can continue to arise after something and we would I would call that stuff that something awakening let's say the awakening phase so Ramesh used to say um you get your license once you pass the driver's license test they stamp your license and that is a spontaneous event you have your license but then after that there is a period where you are you have your license but you're not confident driving this hesitation there's nervousness and all of that and that is a period where the understanding is sinking in into practice and then one day you find yourself driving through heavy traffic and you realize I'm driving through heavy traffic everything's effortless and automatic and so it means that the deliverance has happened and so that metaphor is in effect the spontaneousness of certain insights but then those insights need to 2:15:00 be integrated into the system and the opposing beliefs get kicked out and that can take a period of time and eventually the suffering isn't there and then you go oh it must have happened deliverance must have happened after the end of suffering like whenever the biological anger comes up like what type of anger is it like is it something like when if you can explain like what kind of anger the the anger will be according to the person that is let's say now free of suffering according to their purse that person's makeup so we will have we all have a unique makeup some people are more irritable less patient than others and that's part of their biology biological reaction so if someone is less patient they're free of suffering and in the moment someone might be you know deleted and they come on get on with it and that's just a biological anger for example arising um Ramesh used to say he used to get angry at his servants because they didn't stop beer in the fridge when he told them make sure there's always two cold beers in the fridge you know and he tells them every day and he opens the fridges no why what no no beer in the fridge again viologic go reaction but as soon as that's happened no hatred for the person because it seemed to be a happening not the servants doing he said well the servant is obviously not getting the message and that's my destiny to want a cold beer and it's not there and then there will be other people who their biology is different and they just don't get angry and it's not that the one that doesn't get angry is more enlightened than the other one because he and the liberation is towards one's attitude so how you what your attitude is to the anger and what your attitude is horizontal Horizonte lean time towards the fact that the servant didn't put the beer in the fridge [Music]